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Wednesday, August 12, 2009

Savvy Gets the Girls at Church to Tell Her Stuff

They're tired of waiting. I drew out one of the girls who has been attending the church her whole life. By guy's standards she has an incredible body. She wears tasteful clothing and nearly always wears heels. As she sat across from me she said:

Godly: There are some really great guys in the group, but they just aren't ready and I'm tired of waiting. It's hard, but this is my home church. I just wish they would grow up and start asking us out.
Savvy: Do you think feminism plays a role in that?
Godly: Well, my mom married when she was 37. She had suitors, but she turned them down because she had other things she wanted to do. I didn't exactly want to follow in her footsteps, but I'm still waiting for the right guy, some who I'm attracted to. She ended up not marrying the love of her life.
Savvy: From what I can see there are alot of really good-looking guys in the group.
Godly: Yes, and alot of actors.
Savvy: Oh, yes, that's true of LA. What do you think it is?
Godly: If we went anywhere else in the country we would all be married. Texas, Utah. But not here.
Elektra: It just seems that the guys aren't really interested in relationships from about 19-32. It seems like they are more interested in bonding with other men.
Savvy: Are we not encouraging them enough?
Godly: I get flirted with, but it stops there.
Elektra: I just think of it as a great place to make friends.
Savvy: So, what about the whole series on dating?
Godly: It seems like it was just wishful thinking on their parts. I mean, it makes sense to find someone at church since we believe the same things. Unfortunately, it's just not happening.
Savvy: Well, I exchanged emails with one guy when he asked. But I had already put my foot in my mouth and actually told a guy that I like him.
Godly: I don't see the point in doing that in my situation. The guy I like is moving and we've known each other for years. He didn't pursue me in all of that time.
Savvy: I just wonder if it might make a difference. Maybe he just doesn't know. I wasn't dealing with the same situation, but I just had to say something to this guy. I mean, my heart skipped a beat every time I saw him. It's just something about him.
Godly: Wow, really? It's not quite like that for me with him, but it is a big deal. Does he go here?
Savvy: Umm, no. He goes somewhere else. He lives in another state. In any case, it's complicated.

I try my best to throw her off the trail since she was also friends with Seattle. I doubt she would even notice Seattle the way I have because he might be too average-looking for her, too geeky. I fear being laughed at for my preference, so I say nothing. I've pulled this on other occaisions. As soon as I say I like the nerdy ones, a list of names pops up. Elektra knows, she just doesn't know how bad I have it for him. As long as Elektra doesn't slip the info to her later.


I was sitting with another girl who is really cute and about 22. She is fit and has freckles. She is totally wholesome--the kind of "good woman" that so many are seeking. We started talking about relationships.

Cutesy: I haven't been on a date since I was 16.
Savvy: Wow, 16? that's a long time.
Cutesy: Well, I'm sorta used to it. Whenever I really like a guy, I get too nervous to talk to him.
Savvy: Oh, no.

Somehow we were in a place that everyone walked by and were joined by a guy who talked to us about places to go hiking. Suddenly the group was Hiker, Cutesy and Intern.

Savvy: So we were talking about relationships. I was just wondering what your take is.
Hiker: Well, I was engaged for a few years, and it didn't work out.
Savvy: really?
Hiker: Yes, she wasn't very stable. I hoped it would get better but it never did.
Savvy: So, are you seeing anyone now?
Hiker: I basically don't want to. I need some time to myself before I try again.

It makes sense. I needed time after I broke off my engagement. Sometimes people come to church for healing from brokenness. Then we talked about hiking. When Hiker left, I decided to try a little magic.

Savvy: He's really cute, what about him?
Cutesy: Oh, I don't know.
Savvy: I can talk to him...
Cutesy: No!
Intern: What about you? Aren't you single? Why don't you go out with him?
Savvy: I was just thinking for her. They had really nice energy talking to each other.
Intern: Yes, but he's a good guy.
Savvy: Oh, I don't think he would be interested in me. Also there is someone I have feelings for.
Together: Who?
Savvy: Ummm. I don't want to say. It's complicated. He doesn't go here.
Cutesy: Is he Christian?
Savvy: Yes.
Intern: Good, then we'll let it slide.

Enough people already know (about 4) and when more find out, let's just say it will be interesting. Crying at church the week after he left and saying he wasn't there didn't seem to tip anyone off. Good. But going up to Seattle will.

I'll let you all know how my further investigations go...

I love comments!


Welmer said...

You do know about California's family law regime, right?

From a guy's perspective, that cute girl is a ticking time bomb, ready to blow his life into smithereens at the slightest hint of dissatisfaction.

If you've really got a problem with guys refusing to commit, then work to change the law so that they have some kind of security in a relationship with a woman. If things stay the way they are, guys are going to start demanding large cash deposits from women for potential legal fees before they get married. That a woman goes to church means nothing, as "Christian" preachers now openly encourage mercenary behavior in women, and never condemn a woman for breaking her vows.

I always counsel my younger cousins and other young men not to marry without a prenup that holds a woman to her vows. A substantial dowry (at least 25k considering the costs of divorce) in addition to that would be even better.

SavvyD said...

Since I haven't really dated in church much, I don't know much about it. I am friendlier to the guys than alot of the girls.

I think the dowry system would help. Though the dowry would have to be returned to the family if the man didn't keep his vows or say, murdered her. The gate swings both ways on this.

I have overheard girls nattering on about the "cute" guys and I know that the ones I like don't make the cut. When I was referring to good looking guys, my list was far broader and more inclusive than theirs would ever be.

SavvyD said...

PS I'm a big fan of covenant marriage.

BeltainAmerica said...

Ya I think Welmar is spot on Savvy.

I still see alot of young guys thinking they are going to get married but even in my neck of the bible belt it seems all the really smart young men are repeating what Welmar says.

Marriage is a bomb waiting to go off for them and they know it.

The only young men I see getting married, and I have been to two this summer, were both pretty geeky band beta types honestly. Except for the Amish and menenites (sp?) here abouts. They still all get married :)

SavvyD said...

There's alpha and beta--what's below that? because there IS below that and some guys who are decent betas are taking the heat for whatever is less than that. And the guys who are supposed to be Alphas are just assholes not truly Alphas.

Novaseeker said...

Alpha, beta, omega is the current nomenclature.

Alphas in this sense are normally defined as those who have the most *sexual* success with women, and it's pretty consistent that they do. They wouldn't get past a woman like you, but part of being an alpha is simply moving on to the next girl, because they *know* it won't be too long until one gives in to them. They are the men with the most sexual power.

Omegas are guys who are at the bottom, with nothing much at all to offer to women.

Betas are the middle of the road guys -- hard working, stable and so on. But often not exciting, maybe a bit bland, maybe a bit awkward and so on.

Men have sliced themselves up this way on the basis of who does better with women, generally, and it's more or less accurate, really.

SavvyD said...

Then I would put a few guys in Omega by virtue of a complete lack of social skills even though their jobs might bring in money.

I think jobs have status also and should figure into the mix. But that's me.

Anonymous said...

i honestly can't imagine the amount of energy you expend trying to keep seattle on the dl.

i can't decide if i'm ready to start dating again yet. i guess i'll just have to wait and see if anyone comes along who's worthwhile.

Anonymous said...

I feel like I have had very similar conversations with all of my Christian female friends about 100 times at least. Guys aren't doing anything, girls are tired of waiting, etc. It is frustrating beyond belief. I've basically given up on guys for now...and maybe in another year or two, they will have grown up enough to notice me and the other fabulous women.

SavvyD said...

ametonia--do you encourage their attention? Do you flirt? Do you drop hints? We're told all these wacky things about NOT doing that, but it's so natural with someone you like. So far I haven't had any real luck with the guys at church. Seattle is a crush, but nothing happened. I dropped a fairly major hint. Older men may be where to look for you without knowing anything else.

Vanover--I think you should look when you are ready. "Wait and see" sometimes leads to nothing.

Anonymous said...


It's hilarious when chicks say "I wish he'd 'grow up' and ask me out" (I wonder if they apply this logic to their own failure to ask GUYS out.That's a rhetorical question by the way, women are generally in favor of double standards that advantage them at the expense of men.) like they think being in a relationship is the height of grownuppedness. Most couples I've known over the years practically talk to each other in baby talk.

Being in relationships infantilizes even the most mature and practical men eventually.

That's why the most sage and wizened guys you'll ever meet are old and poor and haven't had a date in years.

SavvyD said...

Well, anon, if a woman marries a man who doesn't impress her, yes, she will most likely treat him like a child she has to train or yell at for not doing what needs to be done. Men and women both have a tendency to let things go and stop appreciating each other once the relationship is defined by marriage, but that's another story.

MarkyMark said...


I can't add much to what Welmer or Beltain have already said. Suffice it to say that, from a man's perspective, relationships are risky; marriage is even more so. When viewed in the light of a cost/benefit analysis, more and more men are deciding that marriage offers all risk and no reward for them. Ergo, they decide that they're better off single...


Anonymous said...

Let's see, obsession with looks, wants a guy that 'impresses her' (400-point list for that, I'm sure).

You gals are the ones that need to grow up.

Lotsa 'cute guys', *giggle, giggle*.

You sound like you're a twelve year old girl with a crush on a boy band.

I don't date women like that because they're just too intellectually immature to hold my interest.

Or they've been too busy spreading their legs for guys they have a crush on.

Christians don't seek out crushes. Christians seek out mature people who love God and his word.

SavvyD said...

Oh, anon, I was trying to encourage the one girl at the end. He seemed like a nice guy, they had a good time talking about hiking, he was good looking and it's OK to notice that as long is it's not the only thing. In another post I talk about how annoying it was that the girls focus on that too much. I'm still trying to figure out the first girl myself.

If you look at all of my posts overall about Seattle, I talk about how he points me toward God, is slightly geeky and amazingly kind.

I'm at the point where I may no longer allow Anonymous comments. Many times the Anons are rude.

CS said...


"...and maybe in another year or two, they will have grown up enough to notice me..."

Be certain that guys most certainly have noticed you. There's nothing that stands out to me more than shaming language. And the attitude of the woman who uses it.

Women who use shaming language to express themselves are as noticeable as a flashlight beam in a pitch-dark night.

We men DO notice women who genuinely are sweet, down to earth and grudge-free. Many of us are not nearly as immature and shallow as so many women would believe us to be. You may not know who we are but we do exist.

I hope that you meet someone special but if the attitude you project in our post is typical of your everyday attitude, how will you not repel him?

SavvyD said...

I always make an effort to encourage the men. Even if they don't like me like that now, things have a way of changing over time. If nothing else, if another guy asked about me, my guy friends will say I'm awesome. :) Plus, they will be encouraged by me to be more Godly, etc.

CS said...

That's the proper way to make friends, Savvy. Know that so many of we men have been victimized by women who use shaming language that we've sworn to ourselves that we won't ever put up with it again. I am one of those men. And I don't use it against women, either. And those of us who grew up in homes where the woman abused us by using shaming language can spot a woman inclined in that direction a mile away, even if she tries to hide it.

There are much better ways to live. In women and men inclined to be verbally abusive, Jesus indeed spoke the truth when He noted that what comes from the heart manifests itself through the tongue.

Anonymous said...

That's great that you're not hung up on looks. Really, that makes you a minority among Christian women.

While it is true that Christian men may get hung up on looks equally, I will point out that I frequently am pressing my friends who have an obsession with appearance to take a maturity pill and get over it.

My rule of thumb is that 90% of women are attractive if they are at a reasonable weight.

99% are attractive if they are in great shape.

Guys like attractive-looking girls, but we are really suckers for women with the right combination of sweetness and femininity.

I knew a girl who was about 50 pounds overweight, with cellulite even. But she was totally fun, sweet, and acted coy and feminine. Lots of guys wanted her, and she was asked out a lot, while much thinner women I worked with were not.

I fight the good fight as well, since I will date women for whom I have no immediate "chemistry" (I hate that word), just to see if a connection builds as I get to know their character.

I don't even bother to go after the 'hot' Christian girls. Too stuck up, usually.

Too many Christian are seduced by the chemistry trap just as the worldly are. I ain't nothing but plain old lust, with a socially acceptable label on it.

SavvyD said...

Anon--I also pass up on the hot ones--not because they are stuck up, but I often find that good-looking men use their looks to their advantage. My cousins had a policy of not turning down what was offered--they got alot of offers. Also, though raised Catholic, they didn't practice.

CS--I know that alot of guys are not treated well.

Anon--I understand now. There are alot of people who think what they do in their teens and 20s doesn't really count. Instead of true repentance they just excuse it. It's very different.