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Sunday, October 26, 2008

MA in Theology with an Emphasis in Being a Jerk

I can't stand any of the Christians I have dated. Everyone (whoever that is) says I should date Christians. Goodness knows I have TRIED. I haven't liked any of them. The most recent is Greek Orthodox and has a Masters in Theology. No joke. So you would THINK that he has his head screwed on straight. He does, perhaps about the scriptures. But then Kiki asked me, Savvy, why do you date these losers?

Because I thought I should give the Christian guy a chance?
Because I should date Christians?
Because I'm trying to move on from Tall and he's taller than Tall?
Because he's a good kisser?
Because he has a Masters degree in theology?
Because I didn't know he had an emphasis in being a jerk?
Because he invited himself?
Because I thought he would understand that sex is something holy to be shared between a husband and a wife?

Everything that could possibly be bad about a third date was. Partly it was my fault. Maybe not. I was late because of the kind of traffic that makes a 30 minutes trip and hour and a half ordeal. I knew this would happen and warned him that I would arrive as soon as I could.

He already didn't seem like he was in a good mood, possibly because I was late.
Dude: I'm wearing shorts because it's hot.
Savvy: OK.

In reality that meant he was dressed kind of like a slob. At least he smelled good.
He didn't open the car door for me when I met him at his house--even when asked.

He started joking about sex, so I gave him a playful backhand or two.

He made me pay for my own dinner.

My friends noticed his sullenness. I tried to pull him out of it.
Savvy: I would have cancelled if it weren't for the fact that the beer garden is so close to where you live.
Dude: Thanks, that's nice to know.

Tall was there and didn't want to meet him.

He kept texting his friends and took a phone call. How rude!

We joked about him holding my purse for me.
Dude: I don't hold women's purses for them, unless they belong to my mom or grandma because they're responsible for my existence.
Savvy: So, you wouldn't hold my purse?
Dude: Absolutely not. But I would go through it.
Savvy: Sure, why not. Though you wouldn't learn anything secret from it. There wouldn't be anything I haven't told you about. Aligners, toothpaste, coupons for my car maintenance...
Dude: I'm sure you have some secrets, we all do. I'm sure yours vibrates.
Savvy: Oh my God!! You did not say that.

I reached for his face, placed it in both my hands and gave him a mini slap.
Dude: That's the third time you've hit me.
Savvy: Is it? Is it? I apologize, it's also the third time you've said something dirty to me.
Dude: Yeah, well don't ever hit me again. My instinct is to hit back.
Savvy: Stop talking dirty to me. Besides, you pulled my hair on Saturday, so we're even.
At the end of the evening on our first date he pulled my hair at the nape of my neck in a misfired effort to be sexy.

He was sullen and silent.
Savvy: You're awfully quiet.
Dude: That's because I'm angry.
Savvy: I did apologise.
Dude: And I accepted it.
Savvy: I just don't feel like you like me very much.
Dude: I did up until you did that.
Savvy: But you're still punishing me with your silence. I wanted to give you a chance because I thought things would be different.
Dude: They would have been.



He wouldn't get a napkin for me when I asked nicely.
Savvy: I forgot to get a napkin, would you mind terribly getting one for me?
My hands were covered in chicken and I needed to breathe. I thought it might calm him to do something.
Dude: Actually I do.
Savvy: Ummm...
Dude: I do mind. You can get it yourself.
Savvy: Excuse me, I'll be right back.

I finished what I could of my chicken in silence and then excused my flustered self to the bathroom for some air. On my way there I said to a girl, I'm on the worst date of my entire life. Actually, there have been worse. Way worse.

I feel like he doesn't respect me--or women in general.
Savvy: If feel like you don't respect me because you keep saying things to me.
Dude: sorry you feel that way.
Savvy: Don't you believe the things I told you?
Dude: A little. It's just that women lie alot...You look disappointed.
Savvy: It's just that I told you things about me that are really hard to talk about and you don't believe me. That's rough.
Dude: Oh, I'm just giving you a hard time.

He got into a verbal altercation with an acquaintance of mine over his people being in a genocide. See his people's genocide was way worse than the Jewish genocide. He said some pretty choice words about him afterwards and said he didn't give a f*** what he thought because he was a dried up old man, etc.

He told me stories of how he told people off. Sure, he had good reason, but there are better ways of handling disagreements. He has a long history of verbal altercations going back to high school.

He probably used a few expletives to describe me to his roommate. I thought having friends was a positive sign. But maybe they are all a touch afraid of him.
He hates bloggers. It's just an online diary. It's killing legitimate journalism. I've never met a blogger I liked. Need I say more? Last week he had said he would make the exception for me.

I recalled clearly how his inappropriate jokes, attempt to grab my butt and pulling my hair made me feel on our first date. He mentioned he's worried about being emasculated?? Masculinity doesn't equal anger, making women feel bad and telling tasteless jokes. I gave him a chance because he was a CHRISTIAN?? Never again. It's sad because the beginning was really cute and I thought there was more potential there. Maybe he was nice then because he had a mild concussion.

I got rid of him blessedly early because he "felt sick" and went back to the beer garden to have fun with my friends. Tall gave me the rest of his beer to finish. He didn't like that Dude and I looked like I needed a drink. I did the chicken dance with Tall, the German conga line, Kiki and I frisked two of our guys who loved it, took lots of pictures, and then I sang happy birthday to some girl I don't know.

MA in Theology, whatever. I have a PhD in Going Solo. I'm starting to think I'm better as a solo act.


The Learner said...


It is a bad idea to hit a guy. If he says something you don't like clearly tell him, and if he won't stop, end the date and stop associating with him. Hitting him invites him to hit you back.

SavvyD said...

I would never have thought of that. These were more like playful taps, not hitting. Hitting is totally different and involves force. At least to me. However, in the mind of an abusive man, it becomes a totally different story.

Anonymous said...

"I recalled clearly how his inappropriate jokes, attempt to grab my butt and pulling my hair made me feel on our first date."

why the hell would you ever go on a second or even third date with this loser?

and the hitting.... in the mind of any man, abusive or not, a 'playful slap' in front of other people can be really disrespectful. men don't like to be publicly disrespected.

SavvyD said...

I met up with him in the presense of my friends. It's interesting how everyone is focusing on 2 teeny backhands which happened in the car. And the last to his face looked very playful but made him extremely angry.

In all the literature I've read, we ladies are supposed to teach men how to behave. He's a big guy and I could see him accidentally pulling my hair harder than he intended. And while some of those may be alarm bells to some, others find it a turn on. Some dating books even say that this is not a dealbreaker unless it continues. It continued, dealbreaker.

I was basically lambasted for trying to work things out with an atheist guy, so I thought a guy with a Masters in Theology would be a batter pick. Just wanted to make sure my initial misgivings were unworkable. They were.

Anonymous said...

Just because he has a masters in theology, does not make him a christian or a good guy.

To you, they were two teeny backhands; but you don't know what they were to him.

And I don't know what 'literature' you're reading. Do you really want to teach a grown man how to behave? IF that's what you want, you should adopt a child instead.

SavvyD said...

Anon--you are just proving my point in writing this. He's the loser--a few times over. I think it takes some time to get to know people and find out what is real about them. I don't know what they were to him. He's clearly a nut job. I didn't know he would behave so badly. Had I KNOWN, I would have spared myself the trouble. I KNOW now and won't go out with him again.

Anonymous said...

i know he's the loser. i'm not saying he's not.

but even though on the first date he pulled your hair, made inappropriate jokes, and attempted to grab your butt, you didn't know?

Johnny said...

"In all the literature I've read, we ladies are supposed to teach men how to behave."

You're reading literature that suggests that men are boorish louts who have to be tamed by women, but yet you were surprised just a couple posts back when you run into guys who think that they must have sex to be in any relationship.

Sounds like you and all the guys you run into are all reading the same wrong-headed stuff, because, trust me, many of us men get along just fine without expecting all women we date to sleep with us, and we're also able to control ourselves as well. Any man who claims otherwise on either count really isn't worth your time.

The Learner said...


People are focusing on you hitting the guy because it is a very bad idea for you, and disrespectful to him. Perhaps it would be wise to rethink classifying this guy as "abusive" when you are the one who hit him. The majority of reciprocal physical violence that occurs between men and woman is started by the woman. Don't be foolish about it.

That doesn't mean you have to put up with him being sexually innappropriate.

SavvyD said...

Learner, I don't see what I did as "abusive" and it's very interesting to me that you do. Not all "hitting" is the same. Just like tickling and grabbing aren't the same.

Johnny--it's seriously not all the men that I run into, but I do end up writing about the ones who say things which reflect the majority opinion.

About the hair pulling, a couple of comments back, I mentioned that some might find this to be a turn on as some books on how to seduce women suggest tugging the hair at the nape of the neck. It was his attempt at being sexy.

And yes, we do often have to tell men what is acceptable to us. Some women actually might be FINE with hssuggestive jokes. Others find it disrespectful.

I will write about one of my decent friends in the near future as he is one of "my men" who I have written about before--Swing.

SavvyD said...

When I say I didn't know, I mean I didn't know his behavior would be worse! Again, some girls don't mind the thngs I mentioned.

The Learner said...


I didn't say you were abusive. I questioned your classification of him as abusive considering that you were the one who hit him, playfully or not. Even though you think that there is different types of hitting aparently this guy found your type to not be acceptable. If you saw one guy doing what you did to him to another guy would you be surprised if the he backhanded or mini slapped him back? Would you find it acceptable if he had playfully backhanded or mini slapped you back? I wouldn't want men doing that to me, so I don't do it to them.

Savvy, when I was in 9th grade I came home from school with a scratch on my face and my Dad immediately asked me what happened. I told him a boy in my class had given me something (I can't remember exactly what it was now, some sort of gag card or booklet with a sexual joke on it that crudely invited me to have sex with him) on the bus. I told my Dad I slapped him and the boy slapped me back (that's how my face got scratched). My Dad was very upset with me and he told me to never hit a man unless he hit me first and I needed to defend myself because some men will hit back and as a girl I was going to come out worse. He also told me if something like this happened again to tell the boy to stop and remove myself from his presence. If the boy didn't leave me alone I was to tell a teacher and let my Dad know too. I still follow Dad's advice, I think it's good advice (though I don't tell him anymore if a man says something crude to me lol).

Anonymous said...

obviously, you minded the things you mentioned about this guy. yet you still went back for more?

anyways... johnny makes a wonderful point. there are solid guys out there who behave well and who don't want sex before marriage. i think the question you need to ask yourself is, why aren't you attracting the solid no-sex guys? why are you attracting these other dudes? it's obviously a pattern? are you happy with it? if not, what will you do to change it?

i only ask these questions and come off this way because i don't want you to get frustrated and settle for some guy who wants you to sleep with him.

SavvyD said...

Learner--that explains your reaction and comments. You have personal experience. Mine was that boys don't girls because if we slap them, chances are they deserve it.

Anon--there are horny guys out there. You might as well ask Learner why she attracted the attention of that boy.

Also, did you not read the story of how I met him? I suggest you do that because it was quite innocent.

SavvyD said...

Just curious, what is the point of criticizing me for a mistake I made and learned from, wrote about for your entertainment, and hopefully will not repeat in the name of Christian charity toward alleged Christians?

I'm glad those of you who left comments feel like you are smarter and savvier than me.

The Learner said...

Ok Savvy, no worries. Since you don't want to hear it, I'll keep any further thoughts on the subject that I was commenting on to a post in my own blog.

Anonymous said...

sorry if you feel like you're being criticized. just trying to ask some hard questions. besides, what is the point of blogging for our entertainment and enabling comments? if you don't want to hear what we say, then don't blog. write a book instead. or disable comments. you're a little defensive, huh?

ps... learner's story is about a boy she knew in NINTH grade. things were a little different in high school.

and sure, there horny guys out there. but there are quality guys, too. which type would you rather attract? which type do you currently attract?

Tairebabs said...

Dating is a process. That's why its called dating. We will meet all kinds of people with different characteristics. I tried dating people based on classification/religion/tribe/race, but I found that people r people. They differ and thats a fact of life. I have never liked guys who show signs of being violent and to be honest savvy, pulling the hair and talking dirty are top of my I don't like list in men. Then to the issue of hitting/playful jest well your playful slap was not appropriate but then we all make mistakes and learn from them. Take the experience as a lesson and learn from it. Although Mr. dirty jokes probably deserved a mouth full of soap!

SavvyD said...

My point was that some women might not have the same problem. Again, I can see the hair pulling being accidental, since this is something that some of those how to pick up girls books recommend. And some books have given the advice of giving a few chances to someone.

Part of my whole point in beginning to blog was that some people could relate to the things that happen and might even find them amusing or just be glad it wasn't them.

Yes, I gave him the "Christian discount" I already said I won't do that again.

I have a tendency to be a bit naive and look for the best in people.

What makes me defensive is the idea that *I* attracted this guy by something wrong that I was doing when the beginnings were really very innocent. I was nice to him because he bumped his head. That's Florence Nightingale sweet in my opinion and in the opinions of my friends. I asked him to tie my skates and he said something about how if we were in the 6th grade, that would make us boyfriend/girlfriend.

Do you REALLY think things are different than in the 9th grade? I would say that some of the guys haven't changed much. I had a boy sit next to me who used say dirty things to me and I was in the 7th grade. Am I responsible again?

I have written about nice guys also--they may not have been interested in a relationship for their own reasons, but they are nice and have always been respectful.

Lastly, I don't believe in the Law of Attraction. It smacks of the health and wealth gospel.

SavvyD said...

Do you guys honestly never play smack someone? I'm talking with the back of your hand.

Do you never tickle anyone?

I'm curious.

SavvyD said...

Learner--I appreciate your comments, however I find myself not understanding them too well all the time.

Tairebabs said...

well I play smack my boyfriend on occasions and a few male friends of mine who I am close to but I have found that a lot of guys don't like the gesture as they find it insulting. Personally, I don't see the big deal but then maybe thats how some guys find hair pulling.

Tairebabs said...

forgot to add that I like the expression Christian discount.

SavvyD said...

He pulled my hair at the nape of my neck in a misfired attempt to be sexy. He confessed to that. Plus I've heard it from another guy that he has actually done that to try and seduce a girl, but it's supposed to be soft. Though some people like hickies -- so some people could be turned on by that, too.

Maybe it's more like a little spank on the butt--which lots of guys like to do. Few people would consider that violent. And honestly, if he were my boyfriend I probably would have let him grab my butt. But I felt it was too forward for a first date.

Anonymous said...

i've never play slapped someone. as for tickling, not lately. i flirt less in general now.... one of the reasons being that it tends to send the wrong signal. why flirt if i'm pretty sure i'm not interested? or if i don't know enough about him yet to determine if i'm interested? in my opinion you don't learn much through flirting.

i see what you mean with the health/wealth gospel thing. but this is different. if you act cheap and/or overly flirtatious, you don't attract quality guys. now, is it more fun, in the moment, to act cheap and/or flirty? of course! but what does it get you in the long run? not much, in my opinion. think about it... if a quality christian guy is out having a drink with a friend, and he sees you tickling, play slapping, and then disappearing outside with some guy, what do you think the quality guy will think about you?

bottom line... after years of attracting guys who were definitely not the solid, christian, marrying-type, i finally asked myself, 'what's the common denominator here?' and i realized my answer was... me. i could only blame all men for so long. then i had to face up and realize that if i wanted a quality guy, i had to act like a quality girl.

SavvyD said...

Anon--won't you please read my post about boys at the Roller Rink. Seriously. I was wearing baggy clothes. I was friendly and nice to him because he bumped his head. Some guys think you are flirtatious when you are just friendly. Interesting, isn't it?

single/certain said...

read that post. i was referring to the one where you went outside to make out with some guy... can't remember off the top of my head which one it was...?

SavvyD said...

Also, the stuff you describe didn't happen that evening--nor have I engaged in that kind of scenario in a bar.

One time I was trading name tags with people and that was cinsidered to be flirting. Good lord! I was just having fun with the nametags. I swithced with the girls, too.

single/certain said...

and now you know who i am :)

single/certain said...

lol, you crack me up.
and i'm cracking up that we're basically having an IM conversation via blog comments :)

SavvyD said...

SC--Yeah, but which anon? You can't be all of them!

We were just talking, then he mentioned that he was part of a wine tasting group, then I said I had brought some champagne and had it in my purse, so we went to taste it. I was quite tipsy. It was just a few kisses, not a makeout session. Boys with Issues is the post.

I had years of not kissing anyone 2 periods of 3 years. I'm so over that.

single/certain said...

yeah, it def gets old. but so does getting hurt over dumb guys. at least, in my opinion!

i dunno... just seems like you are settling over and over again. you don't have to defend yourself, if you're happy...

um, i was all the 'anonymouses' in this string of comments.....

The Learner said...

SC, I thought that annonymous sounded like you! ;)

The Learner said...


You seemed to make it pretty clear that you're not in a place that you want to hear what I am saying. That's fine. I just think you are not considering the "play slapping" from the guy's perspective. What if a man did exactly the same thing to you?

No, I don't "play slap" men or women for that matter. I am not much of a tickler either. If the state of my relationship with a guy is at the point I am going to touch him, I'd rather hug him than tickle him.

SavvyD said...

This one didn't hurt my feelings. And I've learned to quickly forget them--all of them. Except Bass took me awhile to forget. I wouldn't call it settling. I go out on a couple of dates and if I don't like what I see, that's the end of it. I don't feel like I have to be ready to marry the guy to go out with him.

Learner--I've just never heard that before. That doesn't mean i didn't hear what you said.

The Learner said...

I have gots to go to bed because it is getting mighty late, but, Savvy, it was this statement:

Mine was that boys don't girls because if we slap them, chances are they deserve it.

and this one too:

Just curious, what is the point of criticizing me for a mistake I made and learned from, wrote about for your entertainment, and hopefully will not repeat in the name of Christian charity toward alleged Christians?

I'm glad those of you who left comments feel like you are smarter and savvier than me.

That led me to believe that you didn't want to hear it.

I don't understand why women think it is acceptable to hit/slap a man for something he says. I'm not saying you have to put up with crude behavior from men, but I think if you are going to respond to words with a hit/slap that you are escalating the interaction toward violence.

SavvyD said...

Learner--I understand and I will be careful. For this particular writing, it surprised me that I became the focus rather than him behaving badly. I think my real flaw is that I am too nice, too tolerant, too understanding and too willing to give guys the benefit of a doubt--also known as the "Christian discount". From some of our conversations and how he appeared when I initially met him, I thought he might treat me better than he did because I thought he might value me more than he actually did. Maybe he was mad that I was late.

Amir Larijani said...

Savvy: A Master's in Theology means nothing. I did my year at Southern Baptist Theological Cemetary.

My experience is that divinity students were, well, a mixed bag. And it's not just the men: the women had many head cases among their ranks, too.

Assholery comes with the territory.

Alisha Endre said...

I think this entire exchange is great.

Savvy a theology degree does not equal SAVED.

Did you know that 85% of American's call themselves CHRISTIAN, because they believe there is a God or higher authority... but saved men can confess from their mouths that Jesus Christ is the RISEN savior. Point Blank.

think about it... if a quality christian guy is out having a drink with a friend, and he sees you tickling, play slapping, and then disappearing outside with some guy, what do you think the quality guy will think about you?

This was the BEST scenario of what possibly could happen.

When you decided to give your life to Christ, you had to give him EVERYTHING. you can NOT interact with the men the way you once did. it's HARD! I know. Because I was the ultimate flirt. :)

But back on subject to him. I doubt he was 'saved' probably one the 75 of the 85% of "christians" who isn't really Christian.

I'm kinda irritated at the "Christian discount" theory. its tacky honestly. You should guard your heart with ANYONE, not just non-christians because the bible says the "issues of life flow from it." I hope you pray before you go out with ANY man. Let God lead you....

Also... Have you listened to any preaching/teaching on being a single Christian? Read any literature? I would love to share some with you!

SavvyD said...

Friends, PLEASE note that the follow is an INVENTED scenario. It is FICTIONAL and a CONGLOMERATION of MORE THAN ONE event which I have written about.

think about it... if a quality christian guy is out having a drink with a friend, and he sees you tickling, play slapping, and then disappearing outside with some guy, what do you think the quality guy will think about you?

I am a subtle flirt if I flirt at all. Tickling AND play slapping then disappearing outside sounds desperate to me.

Tickling--the boys tickle me. Disappearing outside--that only happened once and not in conjuction.

Lastly--I smacked Dude 2x in the CAR with no other people around. The final one was completely unnoticed. I cupped his face in my hands and lightly tapped it.

You guys have a tendancy to be a little extreme.

As far as a Christian guy having any thoughts about me, well, I wouldn't want to meet anyone at a bar because when I have talked to my guy friends about meeting women in bars, they all said that they would most likely not think very much of ANY woman they met in a bar.


SavvyD said...

Alsha--Bring it. I have probably read all the books you may have--unless they were published in Africa, LOL ;) Russia, or China. you can also do a keyword search of BOOKS on my blog and you will find out which ones I have on my mind the most when it comes to dating.

As far as being that devoted to Christ, I feel like that is the domain of nuns to consider Jesus your husband and the like. Go to if you really think it benefits you. I have addressed my perspective on that kind of thinking previously. Please read "What Does God Want Anyway?" whic I wrote in September.

Alisha Endre said...

hahah! ok i will do. i'm going to read it now.

i am by NO MEANS a nun.

where in my comment did i say Jesus should be your husband?

I date... ALOT! but I dont make out... because honestly it makes me anxious in the nether regions. ;-)

a simple kiss is fine. u gotta know ur limits.

all my point in life is what most christian women (and NON christian women) fail to realize. you have to be a WHOLE person first before you try connecting with anyone else. otherwise you're searching for someone to fill a void that you should have taken care of before going on the hunt.

the light bulb will switch on one day. its been slowly brightening for me. like a dimmer switch in reverse.

single/certain said...

"it makes me anxious in the nether regions"


i've never heard it put quite that way, but i like it!!!! :)

and i hear on the reverse dimmer thing..... me too!!!