Man: Men have to know that the sex is going to be great and often before they will marry you. See, Savvy, the reason why you aren't married is because you won't do XXX.
Savvy: Shut up! That's total crap. Just shut up. Seriously. A man marries when a man is READY to marry. It doesn't matter how great or how often the sex is. Plus I have known many women who never did ANYTHING before they got married. Look, just leave me alone. Remember the way you felt about sex and relationships in high school? That's about how I still feel about sex and relationships.
BeckySue: Leave her alone. She got religion a few years ago and we need to respect how she feels.
Man2: When you make a man wait, it turns him off. He thinks that you will just withhold sex from him.
I had a relationship where I violated her trust. I have a little bit of a gambling problem and I lied to her to cover it up.
Savvy: Lying is serious.
Man2: Yeah, but it's not like I cheated on her. Besides, if she hadn't asked where I was I wouldn't have had to lie to her. Besides, everybody lies. (Um, right. So it's her fault that you lied to her.)
Savvy: Lying is a violation of trust. (He should be attending gamblers anonymous.)
Man2: In any case, she felt so strongly that she couldn't trust me that she didn't want to have sex with me because she said she didn't love me as much. So you can't associate sex with love. To me, sex is an activity. It's just that it's better with someone you know--just like playing a sport with a friend. Witholding sex didn't help our relationship. I think we could have gotten through it. (So, I should have sex with people I don't trust? Gee, I would have a hard time trusting you too. You have an addiction. By definition, an addict lies to protect their addiction.)
Savvy: I'm sorry that happened to you, but I'm not her. Sex is something special to me to share with someone I am committed to. I'm not just going to do it with someone early on. Otherwise, how many people am I supposed to do it with? Am I supposed to sleep with them early on, like in the first couple of dates? Do you realize how many different men I've dated? How about 100? Is 100 too many? And what about STDs?
Man2: 100? Gross. STDs? That's a definite dealbreaker.
Savvy: See, if I can't have a frank conversation about sex with someone and know what their status is, I'm certainly not going to give it up for the sake of getting a man I barely know and don't even know if he's worth being with.
Man2: See, you equate sex with love. You can't do that. Well, because she equated sex with love, she said it was going to take years before she could trust me again. And I wasn't going to stick around. (So, you think you can just treat a woman like crap, lie to her, throw money down the toilet and she'll be ready to do it? Delusional--unless she is a prostitute or has no self value.)
Savvy: Years? That's a long time. But that's where commitment kicks in. You have to be willing to do what it takes to earn her trust again. And if you can't then it's best that its over.
Man2: its NOT best that it's over. We still want to be with each other and just tried to give it another chance, but nothing had changed. And a man isn't going to want to date you if you've been on a few dates and there's no hint of anything sexual. I'm just giving you a different perspective on how men think. It was what you asked me for.
Savvy: Actually, I DIDN'T ask you. Look, I've heard that perspective before. It was more annoying than enlightening. I'm not her. I'm not changing how I feel. Before I get to that point with someone, I have to feel like that person really cares about me. Sex isn't a weapon, it's something to be shared as part of a covenant (by that I meant marriage) that you make with someone that you love. Sex doesn't equal love or vice versa but you shouldn't have one without the other and too many people try to. It cheapens it for everyone.
Man2: Well, that's what the sexual revolution and women's liberation did.
Savvy: Really? Not for me.
Betty, recently divorced after 31 years of marriage made me laugh. Her husband started cheating on her as one of her parents lay dying. She put her arm around me and whispered in my ear.
Betty: Savvy, don't listen to him anymore. He's an m-a-n and that means he thinks with his d-i-c-k
Savvy: And he's an a-s-s?
Thank God it wasn't a date with either of them. They were just hanging out with us in a group. I've had more dates than I care to remember and they both just spared me the pain of 2 bad dates.