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Sunday, July 27, 2008

Let's Talk About Sex--OR NOT

Everyone is talking about sex. When did you last do it? Who did you do it with? How often do you get it? But what if you don't want to talk about sex with someone? Don't you have that right? Some people don't think so and I ran into just such a person last night. Why don't people get the hint when you walk away??

A large group of us were at the beach for a BBQ and bonfire. Becky Sue was having a conversation with a guy. I hadn't seen much of her in the past few weeks because she had an out-of-town guest staying with her. I approached, and learned it was about sex.

BigBob: See, guys don't think that way. You can be talking all you want but guys are only thinking about one thing.
BeckySu: Oh, really? And what's that?
BigBob: It just sounds like blah, blah, blah. See, men can't even hear you until they have sex with you. Steve, come on over. Let's get his opinion...
Steve: Oh, yeah, that's totally true. We just have needs.
BigBob: It's just a need. Men need it.
Savvy: And that's why it's important to wait to get to know someone first. Other wise how do you know they aren't just going to get their need met and then move on?
Steve: Well, that's just the way things are. That's the risk you take.

At that point, I walked away. If Becky really wanted to talk to these guys, she could go right ahead. Later around the bonfire, I ran into Steve again. I finished my water as we talked.

Steve: were you really offended by what we were saying?
Savvy: Yes, actually, I was.
This would have been a great time for him to apologise.
Steve: Well, why were you offended? Sex is a natural thing.
Savvy: To me it's something sacred and special and I don't want to talk about it that way.
Steve: Women's liberation changed everything. The rules are all different. Maybe if you're looking for a monogamous relationship, but I'm not. You're going to have to find someone either older who appreciates that or find some guys who isn't very masculine and has been downtrodden by women.
Savvy: Excuse me, I need to throw this bottle in the recycling.

I walked away yet again. I don't need his bad advice. Did he get the message? Not a chance.

Steve: I think it's rude that you walked away from me twice as we were talking.
Savvy: I didn't like our conversation. It made me uncomfortable and I decided to end it.
Steve: But you shouldn't have been so rude about it.
Savvy: If a conversation makes me uncomfortable, it's my prerogative to end it, so I excused myself to go do something.
Steve: Yeah, but then where's the learning curve for you?
Savvy: Look, if I don't want to talk about that with you, then I don't think I have anything to learn by having an argument that I've heard before.
Steve: It's not fair to put words in my mouth. You should at least hear me out without being rude and walking away. People say things that bother me all the time, you should laugh it off like I do. You're making a bigger deal out of sex than you should.

That's funny, I didn't see him laughing this off.
Savvy: I'm sorry if you thought I was rude, but it's my prerogative to end a conversation if it makes me uncomfortable. At this point, I'm going to have to excuse myself again. I don't feel it's fair to keep me in a conversation that makes me uncomfortable. There are other people we might enjoy talking to more and other things we might enjoy doing more.
Steve: At least that's not so abrupt and rude as before.
Savvy: Please excuse me.

I walked away for the last time to play light frisbee in the dark. Don't people get that not everyone wants to talk about everything with everybody? Don't people have any manners anymore?


Amir Larijani said...

Savvy: I'm seeing a couple things there.

(1) You were rightly offended, but didn't bother to articulate the truth--which hopefully you believe: that even monogamy is wrong. The only sexual activity that is morally acceptable--and holy--is that between a husband and wife. Everything else is short of the glory.

If these folks were Christians, then shame on you for not hammering them. If they were not, then you should have busted Steve and told him that your faith rests on a God who has a greater design for sex, and that men and women--whatever their "needs" may be--ought to be looking to conform to God's expectations rather than some worldly standard.

(2) What Steve articulated is, sadly, a consequence of feminism. A man once asked Gloria Steinem why men should support feminism. Her response was "Because you will screw more and enjoy it more.'

A lot of men signed up for that deal, and they ended up screwing more, and enjoying it more. And the women got screwed. In more ways than one.

SavvyD said...

I know that it is a consequence of feminism. But it's not something I believe in, so I chose to walk away. I will leave the arguing and apolegetics to those who are actually good at it or enjoy it. I don't believe arguing or further discussion ever did or proved anything or made anyone believe in God. I said it was something special and I didn't want to debate it further. I'm sure you disagree with me and I'm OK with that.

Amir Larijani said...

Savvy: Choosing not to engage them is a judgment call: in and of itself, that is neither right nor wrong.

On the other hand, when you said, "And that's why it's important to wait to get to know someone first. Other wise how do you know they aren't just going to get their need met and then move on?" that also reflects a less-than-Biblical understanding of sex, and in fact plays right into their hands by accepting their assumption that sex outside of marriage is morally permissible.

You were suggesting that it is ok to have sex as long as you "get to know someone first".

In fact, the sexual act was created for a husband and wife.

SavvyD said...

Not neccessarily. I countered their remarks. I didn't say how committed the relationship needs to be. You assume far too much.

Amir Larijani said...

Savvy says: You assume far too much.

Actually, I took your statement at face value. There is a huge difference between "getting to know someone first" and "getting married first".

As for ducking out of the discussion, personally I can't fault you for that. We all have to pick and choose our battles, and we have to decide if the discussion is going to be meaningful as opposed to casting pearls at swine.

Again, that's a judgment call, and I can hardly blame you for ducking out of that.

Personally, I'd like to have been there just so I could kick the crap out of Steve for being an asshole, but that's just me. ;)

SavvyD said...

Ah, now you get me. I did think it would have been pearls before swine. Also, I need a big brother type. While we're at it, why don't you do the same to Bass, Tall, Cal, Astro, etc.

Anonymous said...

Wow. Talk about deja vu. I had a similar conversation with a male friend the other day about sex and how it is just a primal urge that needs to be taken care of. He shamed me for not already having sex with my boyfriend stating "if its there and your not taking advantage of it, there must be something wrong with you." Yikes! Of course I discussed my thoughts on how sex is more than just an urge, and how I want to want until Im married.

It bothers me that people believe the lie that :everyones doing it: and so they feel obliged to take part of the trend. When in reality, not everyone is doing it, but those who dont have mindless sex and who aim to preserve their "purity" have a hard time finding like minded partners.

I could rant for pages, especially about what I see in the my college peer group, but I will not.